wizard
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| posted on 8/7/2022 at 10:34 PM |
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DISCUSSION: The German Game
The main attraction of the German game is that there must be a break every hand.
I have 3 problems with this feature:
1. The final bidder may be forced to make an illogical bid.
2. Examining German games I do not see any more total breaks than in Magic or Camelot.
3. Even bids provide an opportunity for a player with a good hand to break 2 players, not just one.
Comments invited.
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verona
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| posted on 9/7/2022 at 12:01 AM |
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Agree with #1-- that is also why when I host German I try to always play with 5 players. 10 hands. 5 players. Each find themselves in that
situation twice per game
As far as #2, that is probably true but I do not believe it is true with historical, "regular" wizard. There are many games when multiple players
have finished with zero breaks.
True, but players with zero breaks are also common in the German game.
Agree with #3, but would add--- in German version there are more situations, in my opinion, where people miss bids on purpose, to set a person, than
in the regular version. Plus, I would also propose for discussion that when you are the penultimate bidder, there are times you may attempt to bid a
bid that forces the final bidder to bid something they can not make. Especially near the end, if the final bidder has to choose between a 2 or 4 bid,
or a 3 or 5 bid, one can royally mess things up. It may not take 2 people down, but it can very much create havoc when you are trying to catch
multiple people ahead of you.
I find, in my unscientific calculation, upwards of 75% to 80% of the bids in German are UNDERBIDS. That then results in a lot of dodging of tricks.
Right. But I would prefer a more balanced distribution of under and over bids. 50-50 makes for better play.
Again, in my unscientific calculation, JESTERS become more important in German, as opposed to Wizards being the most important in regular Wizard. I
have no opinion on what is the most important in Camelot or Magic games. yes, because of all the underbids
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aniram
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| posted on 9/7/2022 at 10:26 PM |
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german wizard
Yes, in German mostly 4 player wizard games, I have noticed AND been told by at LEAST 10 avid Wizard players from Germany and Austria that almost 80%
of the hands are underbids. Because of this, they have told me that they would much rather have JESTERS than Wizards in their hands.
In "regular" wizard, 6 players, I don't see a lot of sabotaging in the final hands, where the person ahead intentionally takes too many tricks,
preventing the person with a bigger bid from making. regular 6 player wizard just doesn't give one the number of cards that 4 player german wizard
does. Final hand 10 vs 15 cards can make a big difference in bidding.
In German wizard, internationally, I see this a lot. 9th/10th hand, mostly underbids, only 4 players, big bids probable, leaders may NOT bid their
Wizard(s) in order to use it against anyone with a big bid that may be within striking distance of them.
9th/10th hand, knowing at least one person will miss and that large bids are possible because of more cards, sometimes most of the play focus is how
to best sabotage the hand.
Also, I like how in German wizard, only 10 hands are played. This makes it easier for a table to "fill up" quickly with 4 players. All players know
only 10 hands will be played. Fun !! If just 10 hands is appealing you can play a Quick 3. Or a Quick 4 with just 8 hands. Both fill
up fast.
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carles963
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| posted on 10/7/2022 at 05:20 AM |
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I agree that the last bidder may be forced to make an illogical bet in some cases, particularly in the hands with few cards. It is a random situation,
which in any case, affects statistically all players equally when a high number of games are played.
I don't know the percentage of breaks in any of the Wizard variants. But often, in Regular or Magic games there are no breaks in any of the hands.
Beyond personal strategies, this is so. It is common to see that the last bidder tries to even the number of tricks, included if he has to
overestimate or underestimate the actual strength of his hand.
And finally, a good player with good cards in hand, will not just fulfill his bid, but will try to make fail his strongest rival, better two than one,
in any of the variants (Regular, German, Magic or Camelot), regardless of whether the bids are even or uneven.
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wizard
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| posted on 11/7/2022 at 01:38 PM |
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German Game
Thanks for the input.
Question: Are there any specific features of the German game that you would like to see incorporated into the other Wizard games: Traditional, Magic,
or Camelot? What features into which version(s)?
No response to this question.
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